Author Topic: Is this car a Cadillac?  (Read 1482 times)

Art Woody

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Re: Is this car a Cadillac?
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2010, 05:39:42 PM »
After further research, it seems Nordyke-Marmon became Marmon Motor Car Co. in 1926.

Offline Otto Skorzeny

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Re: Is this car a Cadillac?
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2010, 05:50:07 PM »
Well Done young Skywalker! A formidable Jedi be you shall!

1922 Marmon model 34.

Pictures of 1921 models don't have the boot sill styling feature and I couldn't find any later models with that feature either so 1922 it is.

I officially declare this dead horse beaten.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 09:52:40 PM by Otto Skorzeny »
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Art Woody

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Re: Is this car a Cadillac?
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2010, 09:27:06 PM »
One more thing, there is a Cadillac connection after all. Marmon Motor Car was developing the first V16 in 1927 when hard  times and depression era soon followed. It was 1931 when their all alluminum (steel sleeved cylinder) 491 c.i. V16 went in production. By then Cadillac had beat them to the punch with their own V16 engineered by a former engineer for Marmon.

Offline Mike Simmons 938

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Re: Is this car a Cadillac?
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2010, 10:19:45 PM »
Forrest,

Could that be a 1925(?) Lincoln sedan model, the two key items are the triangle side glass, and the suicide style driver door?? Just a hint..!

Jose- I'll vote with you on the 25 Lincoln- against the tide of Marmon supporters. Mike

Offline Otto Skorzeny

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Re: Is this car a Cadillac?
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2010, 02:14:47 PM »
Mike,
 
Look at that ad copy for a Marmon.  It is the EXACT model in Bill's photograph.
 
Show me a photo of a Lincoln that has the boot sill feature, angled corner windshields, fender running board joints and chassis bolts in the exact pattern as the car in the photograph, among other things, and you might have an argument. 

You may also wish to review some photos of Lincolns of that era. The front bumper wraps around as a single bar not a stacked, two piece bumper as the Marmon.
 
The Lincoln bears only a passing resemblance to the car in the photo.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 02:23:23 PM by Otto Skorzeny »
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Online S Passmore

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Re: Is this car a Cadillac?
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2010, 03:14:42 PM »
Obviously you didn't beat that horse well enough Forrest, Its a miracle this thread is still running ;D

Offline Otto Skorzeny

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Re: Is this car a Cadillac?
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2010, 03:32:41 PM »
Correct on all counts, as usual, Steve!
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Offline Jose Gomez

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Re: Is this car a Cadillac?
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2010, 04:24:12 PM »
Jose- I'll vote with you on the 25 Lincoln- against the tide of Marmon supporters. Mike

Mike,

Thank you for your vote of confident, however I’m just a lonely observer on this topic and my feedback was done with a brief research..! Others have done a more intensive research (as per the multiple threads) and have reach consensus.
J. Gomez

Offline Mike Simmons 938

  • Posts: 148
Re: Is this car a Cadillac?
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2010, 01:55:21 PM »
Mike,
 
Look at that ad copy for a Marmon.  It is the EXACT model in Bill's photograph.
 
Show me a photo of a Lincoln that has the boot sill feature, angled corner windshields, fender running board joints and chassis bolts in the exact pattern as the car in the photograph, among other things, and you might have an argument. 

You may also wish to review some photos of Lincolns of that era. The front bumper wraps around as a single bar not a stacked, two piece bumper as the Marmon.
 
The Lincoln bears only a passing resemblance to the car in the photo.

Sorry, Forrest- I must have been fooled by what seems to be the absence of front wheel brakes in the illustration. mike

Offline Otto Skorzeny

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Re: Is this car a Cadillac?
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2010, 02:04:06 PM »
True. It is only a drawing, however. Front brakes may even have been an option, who knows?
fward

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Bill Jones

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Re: Is this car a Cadillac?
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2010, 06:14:59 PM »
Re: The front brake question, a member of the AACA posted that 1924 was the first year for front brakes by Marmon, and this close-coupled four door sedan Model 34 came out in 1922 but they did not make it any later than 1924. 
He concluded a slim possibility that someone put front brakes on a '22 or '23 but probably not likely.
So I think we can say we have nailed it.
Thanks again everyone for your help:  - Bill:

J. Friedman

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Re: Is this car a Cadillac?
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2010, 03:04:42 PM »
In 2003 I had a retirement job in an antique car restoration shop near my home in Georgia and was one of 3 guys who rebuilt the engine on a red 1920 (or 21, I can't remember) Marmon Model 34B Cloverleaf Roadster that I became very familiar with.  That car looked very much like the one pictured in the photos above and is still in this area in a local collector's museum.  (Maybe it's the same car.)  The red roadster had 2-wheel brakes, but (who knows) 4-wheel brakes may have been a Marmon option.  I think the mystery car closed car is indeed a Marmon 34B, as a couple of posters have said, but somehow the lines of the body seem to indicate that it is probably a late teens car rather than from the early '20s.  Somehow the Cloverleaf Roadster's lines seem more modern (that is, a later year) than the mystery car's.

For those readers interested, the Marmon 34B motor I helped rebuild is very modern looking in many ways, but old fashioned in its construction.  It's an overhead valve, 6 cylinder behemoth with a bore and stroke of 3 3/4 by 5 inches, making for, if I'm calculating correctly, 331 cubic inches.  It has a cast aluminum valve cover, which gives it a striking appearance.  The rocker arms are supported on studs, similar to a '55 Chevrolet V8.  The crankcase is aluminum, the 2 cylinder blocks of 3 cylinders each are cast iron and the single head is steel.  One of the motor's problems was that over the years the different expansion co-efficients of these 3 metals had distorted everything to the point that none of the surfaces between the 3 major components were parallel to each other.  I spend two weeks on a milling machine correcting this and by some miracle actually succeeded.  Next, after filling them with JB Weld, we had to re-machine some of the welch plug (sand casting plug) holes which had rusted out and have the enormous cylinder head re-machined on a planer.  Thankfully, the babbitt bearings were fine, so we got new pistons, rings, wrist pins and a head gasket from Egge Machine and ground the valves to complete the major work.  (We made all the other gaskets, including for the exhaust, ourselves.)  A minor problem was that the carburetor is on the passenger's side and is controlled by a rod from the gas pedal that goes right through the block and is supported on bushings.  The bushings had gone bad, causing oil to leak, so I made new bushings which were machined to accept modern oil seals.  After the Marmon Club told us none exist, one of my colleagues, Don Wright, re-made the water pump with a hand-crafted impeller and then the Johnson updraft carburetor.  We then put it all together and it runs fine.  Lots of power, but who wants to go fast with 2-wheel brakes.


Offline Otto Skorzeny

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Re: Is this car a Cadillac?
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2010, 03:29:33 PM »
That's really cool J.
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Art Woody

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Re: Is this car a Cadillac?
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2010, 04:42:58 PM »
As I wrote before, the biggest disinction I have found concerning the "Motor Car" in question, is the rear most end of the car pictured almost lines up visually with the center of the rear axle. I have not found this on a Marmon 1921 or earlier, nor on 1923 or later.