Author Topic: Most reliable engine?  (Read 1809 times)

Offline Whit Otis, 1188

  • CLC 1188
  • Posts: 168
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2010, 09:30:04 PM »
Little question that the 472's and 500's benefit from all the later technology in engine design.... thin wall casting = light weight and lots of power.... turbo hydramatic smooth but transmits all that power to smoke the tires.... but in the end, give me the '55 331 and dual range hydramatic..... none of the later design sophistication, but all of the best of the early overhead design and zenith of the early hydramatic's.... thank you very much.
Whit Otis
Whit Otis - 1941 6219D Custom; 1940 7533F; 1948 6069X
Drawing of AP Sloan Custom by Terry Wenger

Offline Brett Baird

  • Posts: 45
  • CLC Number: 17764
  • Name: B Baird
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2010, 09:31:24 PM »

 However, it is everyday driving that I am referring to. The driving of the day included many stops, starts, slowdowns and speed ups. Not constant RPM for hours on end which would be the norm for the later interstate driving. The cars were geared accordingly, generally having lower gearing to facilitate this sort of driving. It was a rare case when even 70MPH could be acheived for any more than a few minutes.

 Mike
[/quote]

Cadillac advertisments of the day touted the highway speeds and drivability of the flathead.  I personally drove my '41 to the Grand National in Las Vegas and back home to Salt Lake City, roughly 460 miles one way.  Made the trip home without stops except to eat.  Averaged 65 MPH and 15.8 mpg.  Found myself going 70mph on several occasions.
B Baird
17764
'41 Fleetwood 60 S
'59 Sedan DeVille 6339 "Flat-top"

Offline Whit Otis, 1188

  • CLC 1188
  • Posts: 168
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2010, 09:45:24 PM »
Well, there is certainly nothing wrong with the old flatheads..... I rebuilt the engine in my 40-75 back in 1985 or so.  As a result of my career, I moved several times and ALWAYS drove the car to the new home...... Casper, WY to Evansville, IN to Colorado Springs, CO..... not to mention CCCA Caravan "Rush to the Rockies" and driven to many, many car shows, and "local" tours ..... never let me down yet and it was a mix of stop and go and/or highway driving.  Nothing like the quiet and smooth performance of a flathead.... yes, they are quieter than the OHV's by a long shot, even if they don't have the higher performance.
Whit
Whit Otis - 1941 6219D Custom; 1940 7533F; 1948 6069X
Drawing of AP Sloan Custom by Terry Wenger

Offline Owen Nacker

  • CLC# 19186
  • Posts: 644
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2010, 08:13:02 AM »

 Also, if you read Maurice Hendry's Cadillac History, he outlines the taxi service that criss crossed the Sahara for years using mid 20's Cadillacs. These cars were somewhat overloaded and ran speeds of 70 MPH for hours on end. They amassed incredible mileages doing so.

 So I am in full agreement that these engines can be punished and run flat out for long periods of time. But was the original question, "What is more relible"

 To this I have to give the nod to the OHV engines.

 Mike
1970 Fleetwood Brougham 68169
1985 Eldorado Coupe 6EL57
1988 Eldorado Biarritz 6EL57
1990 Brougham d'Elegance 6DW69
1994 Fleetwood Brougham 6DW69

Offline Larenc

  • Posts: 20
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2010, 03:02:53 PM »
Wow!
Thank you all for a very lively discussion. My son-in-law and I just went to an old cars show last Saturday and saw a 1949 Sedanette and a 1953 coupe (both Cadillacs). I am now determined to get one of each. Those were absolutely beautiful reminders of how a car should be built.
Larenc

Offline Owen Nacker

  • CLC# 19186
  • Posts: 644
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2010, 09:29:15 AM »


 The 1949 Series 62 Sedanette has to be one of, if not the most desirable Cadillacs on my list. They were truly gorgeous cars. That stunning styling along with the game changing OHV engine.

 Mike
1970 Fleetwood Brougham 68169
1985 Eldorado Coupe 6EL57
1988 Eldorado Biarritz 6EL57
1990 Brougham d'Elegance 6DW69
1994 Fleetwood Brougham 6DW69

Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2010, 10:52:54 AM »
Just a side note regarding dependability would be the thousands of (I think it was the M-3) tanks that saw service in WWII with two Cadillac flatheads and Hydramatics in them.
Greg
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille
72 Eldo Cpe
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
514 inch motor now in '73-

Offline Owen Nacker

  • CLC# 19186
  • Posts: 644
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2010, 11:15:52 AM »

 Yes, and the use of the Hydra-Matic in those tanks really did wonders for the development of the transmission which directly translated to it's dependability for civilian use after the war.

 Mike
1970 Fleetwood Brougham 68169
1985 Eldorado Coupe 6EL57
1988 Eldorado Biarritz 6EL57
1990 Brougham d'Elegance 6DW69
1994 Fleetwood Brougham 6DW69

Offline mario

  • Posts: 65
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2010, 12:25:15 PM »

 The 1949 Series 62 Sedanette has to be one of, if not the most desirable Cadillacs on my list. They were truly gorgeous cars. That stunning styling along with the game changing OHV engine.

 Mike

hi mike:
what were the diferences between the 61 and the 62 - 49 club coupe?
thanks.
ciao,
mario

Offline Fleet

  • Posts: 10
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2010, 05:56:26 PM »
Does anyone know the mpg of a 1976 Lincoln?  Chevette was about 30 mpg.
Here are the 1976 EPA ratings: (From a copy of Newsweek magazine)

------------------------------------------- City----- Highway---- Combined

Cadillac Seville------------------------ 15-------- 21------------ 17
Cadillac DeVille----------------------- 12-------- 16------------- 13
Cadillac Eldorado-------------------- 12-------- 16------------- 13
Lincoln Mark IV---------------------- 12-------- 16------------- 13
Lincoln Continental----------------- 12-------- 16------------- 13
Cadillac Fleetwood 75------------- 11-------- 14------------- 12

The two lowest-rated for mileage were:

Jaguar XJ12-------------------------- 9----------- 14------------- 11
Rolls-Royce--------------------------- 10---------- 13------------- 11
Tony Gaudenti
Member #12310

Offline TJ Hopland

  • CLC #20664
  • Posts: 2280
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2010, 08:38:37 AM »
Looks like the standout there is the seville.

So it was was 2-3 feet shorter and a foot narrower than the rest.  Likely also 1000-2000 pounds lighter not to mention a smaller lighter engine with EFI.   Makes you wonder what it would have done with overdrive and a locking torque converter?

I think one thing that helped GM was the Q-jet.  Ford used a lot of 2bbls on the big motors especially in the later 70's which seemed to take the pep out of their motors.   When the others came up with spread bores or the variable ones they never seemed to stay working like the Qjets did not to mention the Q jet already been in production for 10 years at the time.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/aftermarket EFI
75 Eldo rusty but trusty
80 Eldo Diesel
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline 76eldo

  • Posts: 1232
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2010, 08:46:06 AM »
Best running Cadillac I ever owned was my 1970 DeVille convertible with the 472 in it.

Massive torque, smooth at idle, a joy to drive.

Brian
Brian Rachlin,
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
CLC # 22443
Current collection:
1960 62 Series Convertible
1976 Eldorado Convertible
1980 Hess & Eisenhardt Eldorado Convertible
1981 Hess & Eisenhardt Eldorado Convertible parts car
1985 Eldorado Convertible
1999 Eldorado Touring Coupe

Offline STEVE CLC #16187

  • Posts: 77
  • CLC Number: 16187
  • Name: steve hales
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2010, 09:39:06 AM »
In September of 2007, my Wife and I attended the Ironstone De' Elegant Car show in Murphys California, It was about a 1400 mile round trip. We drove our 1939 LaSalle 5019 Touring Sedan.  I drove it about 65-70 MPH most of the way and it never gave me a bit of problems and that was across the hot Nevada desert. Sometimes it was hard to start when I would stop for gas and go to restart it.I had an electric fuel pump and that helped. Other than that it run perfect. When we got home I did a leak down and compression test to why it started hard when hot, Well, I had 15 psi in # 7,  38 in #4 and the rest of the cylinders had between 78 and 84 psi , I had several valves leaking and some cylinders leaking. The point is That old flathead run that good in that kind of condition sure as h--- impressed me, and didn't GM put the 1937 LaSalle on the test track and run it for 24 hours straight  and averaged 80 or 90 Miles and hour? Anyway, I pulled that old flathead and did a complete rebuild everything that could be done was done including hard seats . Almost $5000.00  and it was well worth it. I also did the same thing to my 1939 LaSalle Coupe. I love the old Flathead Engine. That is my story and I am sticking to it,      By the Way larenc can I have my pictures back ?

steve
steve hales
clc # 16187

Offline mgrab

  • Mike Grabianowski, CLC # 25586
  • Posts: 66
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2010, 10:36:02 AM »
There is an excellent article in the recent Cars and Parts (March) that would add much to this debate....Some very good points in favor of the flathead (its the Caddy flathead to boot).  Too much to type here but a good read for all those interested.
Mike
1941 Cadillac Convertible Coupe
1949 Packard
1952 DeSoto
1956 Oldsmobile

Offline Fleet

  • Posts: 10
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2010, 03:48:36 PM »
Best running Cadillac I ever owned was my 1970 DeVille convertible with the 472 in it.

Massive torque, smooth at idle, a joy to drive.

Brian
My mom once drove a '70 Coupe de Ville. 472 engine, 10.0:1 compression ratio.
It ran very well and was very reliable. Passed the 200,000 mile mark with the original engine and transmission. Plenty of power, too!
Tony Gaudenti
Member #12310

Offline kgray39011

  • CLC # 25781
  • Posts: 47
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2010, 05:14:51 PM »
hi mike:
what were the diferences between the 61 and the 62 - 49 club coupe?
thanks.
ciao,
mario
[/quote]

It was the trim package. The model 62 had the upgraded trim package:
* Stainless Stone Gaurd behind the front wheel
* Stainless strip covering the rocker panel
* Windshild trim moldings on interior were chrome
* Interior door glass trim was chrome (it is di-noc transfer in 61 (black/brown color))
* Rear seat has a center arm rest
All that for $184 more!
See pics

Ken
Kenneth P. Gray
Wife - 2010 Cadillac SRX Performance Package
Me - Looking for a 1941-1949 Coupe or Convertible Driver

Offline mario

  • Posts: 65
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2010, 05:39:39 PM »
hi ken:
thank you for the response!
ciao,
mario

Offline Sweede64

  • Posts: 168
  • Life is to short not to drive a Cadillac/Thomas
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2010, 03:39:25 PM »
The main reason for most manufactures to shift from flathead to ohv was increased quality in fuel, a flatty hardly reached more than 7:1 in compressionratio due to ineffective flow and hard to design cumbustionchambers.
When the octan reached 80 or so demand for higher compression couldn't be achieved with flathead design.
The buildquality was good but the design was outdated.
Thomas Karlström

Offline Owen Nacker

  • CLC# 19186
  • Posts: 644
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2010, 06:27:08 AM »

 That's right. Once compression went beyond 7.5:1, then air flow became severly restricted, and there was a significant rise in combustion roughness. Also don't forget the other 331's claim to fame was the short stroke, which greatly reduced piston travel. This also had the side effect of exposing less flame to the cylinder wall, which resulted in more efficient combustion, and a smaller cooling system.

 Plus, the slipper design of the pistons reduced reciprocating weight, and less stress on the crank and bearings and allowed for higher RPM with less stress.

 OHV engines are inherently more efficient over L-Head engines. They have much higher volumetric efficiency by design of more effective breathing allowed by the heads. There are 2 main reasons why the L-head was the mainstay for so long. Fist, they were quieter by means of smaller less complicated valve trains that eliminated the clearances and gaps that made most OHV noisy. Second, they were much simpler, thereby cheaper to build.

 The advent of efficient hydraulic lifters eliminated the first reason, and the need for higher compression and more efficient designs led to the demise of the second reason.

 Mike
1970 Fleetwood Brougham 68169
1985 Eldorado Coupe 6EL57
1988 Eldorado Biarritz 6EL57
1990 Brougham d'Elegance 6DW69
1994 Fleetwood Brougham 6DW69

Offline tony m

  • Posts: 36
Re: Most reliable engine?
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2010, 10:08:47 AM »
Its got to be the 346 cu inch flathead motor.  You must account for length of service, affordability, available parts, and whether you happen to own one.

Tony M.