'38 90 series suspension upper outer shaft question

[Tom Magdaleno]

I'm in the process of ordering parts for my front end rebuild.  The car has about 120,000 miles on it.  The passenger side has a little play in it, the driver side has a lot.  I have narrowed it down to the upper outer pin and bushing assembly.  
 
The shop manual shows more information on the lower series cars.  It shows the steering knuckle as threaded on these cars.  I am trying to figure out if my upper shaft should be threaded.  If not, what holds it from sliding forward and backward, because it has a lot of play now.  If it should be threaded, I may need a whole new steering knuckle and support.  See the attached pics.  It may be missing some parts, I don't know.

I've rebuilt several ball-joint front ends, but this is my first Kingpin car.  Are there any pros on the forum with some tips?

[Classic]

If it is anything like my 37-75, it is threaded, and the pin is eccentric to allow for camber/caster adjustment.

[Brad Ipsen CLC #737]

The upper outer is threaded and only threaded.  It is not an eccentric.  It is used to adjust the caster.  The camber, which in the small series cars is adjusted with the eccentric is adjusted in the 38 to 40 large series cars with washers under the yoke.  This is all shown quite clearly in the shop manual.  It is a real project to adjust the camber because you have to take this all apart to add or subtract washers.

[Otto Skorzeny]

I'm not familiar with these cars per se but can't they use standard  control arm shims that don't require total disassembly? You know, the rectangular ones with the slot?

[Tom Magdaleno]

Does it look like I am missing any parts in the picture?  If that is the treaded pin, I hope the threads are on the inside.   I don't see anything that is threaded on my upper shaft.  The manual I have, on CD, shows exploded views of all cars except mine. 

Brad,  In Figure 17, which is not for my specific car, I don't see washers.  I see a shim, is that what you mean? 

Thanks for the input.

[Glen]

Tom, where are you ordering your parts from?  I’ve been looking for these parts for some time.  I’ve only been able to find used parts. 

I’ll see if I can get pictures of parts. 

Glen

[Brad Ipsen CLC #737]

Tom,

Look at Plate 10, Figures 11, 12 and 13.  They show a typical of your car.  The shim in the figure you attached adjusts the clearance of the steering knuckle around the king pin in the vertical direction.  The 38 manual is just a supplement to the 37 manual.  A better manual for a 38-75 or 90 is the 39 shop manual.  There were no changes in the large series cars from 38 to 40.

[Roger H]

Hello
If my 36 85 is the same as yours this pic may help.  I recently had mine apart.  The end with the  bolt shown in the pic is threaded on the shaft inside but not  the outside.  The other end is threaded on the shaft and the bolt.  The eccentric bolt inside is threaded on the knuckle.

I also have been searching for parts for some time,  they are hard to find.

Good luck

Roger

[Tom Magdaleno]

Tom, where are you ordering your parts from?  I’ve been looking for these parts for some time.  I’ve only been able to find used parts. 

I’ll see if I can get pictures of parts. 

Glen

I got my parts from Coopers Automotive http://www.coopersvintage.com/index.html  I also found the parts here http://www.rareparts.com/

The parts from Coopers had slight surface rust on them, but they looked as good as new. 

[Tom Magdaleno]

Hello
If my 36 85 is the same as yours this pic may help.  I recently had mine apart.  The end with the  bolt shown in the pic is threaded on the shaft inside but not  the outside.  The other end is threaded on the shaft and the bolt.  The eccentric bolt inside is threaded on the knuckle.

I also have been searching for parts for some time,  they are hard to find.

Good luck

Roger

Thanks for the pic Roger.  I took it apart this weekend and found the knuckle threads to be wasted and the hole elongated.  I have to find another steering knuckle, or find a master welder who can fix my knuckle and re-heat treat it.  The threads were worn off my current pin from moving in the knuckle.  I put it back together because I didn't want to ruin my new parts.

I realize now that the pic in my first post is the wrong thing

[Tom Magdaleno]

I got a new Steering Knuckle from member Brad Ipsen.  MUCHO THANKS BRAD!  It appears the 38 90 series used the same knuckle as the 37 V12.  That makes sense because the 38 16 is a smaller lighter engine.  The thing I love about old cars is that you can really get into the engineering and figure out the thought process of these engineers who are long gone.  Removing these parts and figuring out how things are adjusted took some time.  Removing the dust cap was one hurdle; the manual just said "remove the dust cap".  What we ended up doing was tack welding a nut to the cap and using a slide hammer to remove it.  I went to my local parts store and got 1 3/8th concave freeze plugs to replace the dust cap.  I deburred them and they dropped in.  A few taps with the hammer and they were tight.  My dad below with the slide hammer.

The kingpin looked good, just a little stained, but the bearing surface was good.  It didn't want to go in the new knuckle so we put in the freezer for a few minutes and carefully wire brushed the stains off it and it went in. 

[Tom Magdaleno]

These are the parts we replaced.  They were wasted to say the least!  Old Vs new upper outer shaft in the first picture.  The second shows no threads left on the knuckle.  Its all together now and I'm taking the car to the alignment shop Friday.