Correct color for transmission case and other undercarriage parts-'66 Cadillacs

[Greg McDonnell]

I cannot find this info in the '65/'66 Authenticity Manual I have so I'm posting the question here on the forum.  Should the transmission case including the bell housing, be a natural metal color, some sort of silver shade or Cadillac Blue (i've seen the cases many ways at shows)?  If silver, is it a dull or bright silver (any particular shade), gloss, semi or flat?  Am I correct in thinking the transmission pan as well as the oil pan should both be Cadillac Blue?  What about the bolts that hold these pans in place?  Blue, silver, cad planted?  What is the correct shade/finish for the propeller and universal joints?

Thanks very much,

Greg McDonnell
CLC#20841

[Otto Skorzeny]

Normally the entire transmission is the same color blue as the engine. I believe in some later years the bell housing was left natural but I don't know for sure. I've never seen one painted silver, though.

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

My '66 which was original when I bought it had a bare aluminum transmission case.
Greg

[quadfins]

I have a color photo from the early '70s, of the chassis before the body drop. The engine is blue, as is the transmission case front, but the blue paint tapers off toward the rear of the transmission case. There is no paint at the tailshaft. I wonder if it was a case of "Ned" or "Biff" on the engine-paint shift, and how much overspray past the engine he felt appropriate.

Unless it is specified in the Authenticity Manual, I don't see how it can be counted against you, either way.

BTW, my '61 transmission case is all blue-painted.

Jim

[Greg McDonnell]

Hey Guys ,

Thanks very much for your interest in this thread and for providing the info you have!  Now I'm really confused.  I always thought the case was supposed to be Cadillac Blue and painted mine accordingly, along with the pan and bolts (assuming it was all painted in one fell-swoop.  But another member wrote to me directly to say it (the transmission case) should be dull silver (bare alluminum).  Is there anywhere we can go to get to the bottom of this?  Also I really do want to know about the propeller shaft and universal joints.  I painted mine dull silver to resemble bare metal.  I did this years ago because the surface rust on the bare steel looked awful and I was prepping the car for AACA competition.  Now, four years later, I'm prepping it again for higher (Grand National) AACA competition.  The points are tighter so I would hate to lose any for haviing something as large as a transmission painted incorrectly.

Greg McDonnell
CLC#20841

[Otto Skorzeny]

I believe the drive shaft and u-joints are left natural

[quadfins]

Are you planning to be at New Bern in May? I am.
But I recognize the fact that my car will not do well, due to the 5-point rule.

If the Cadillac experts are not sure, I doubt the AACA GN judges will know what is correct for each and every specific marque they will be looking at. How much can be seen, anyway?

Looking at this pic again, the propeller shaft is shiny metal. I suppose the U-joints are, too, but they are too small to discern.

Jim Eccleston
1961 Coupe de Ville
AACA Senior
CLC senior

[Greg McDonnell]

Jim,

Yes, it is my hope I can get to New Bern, NC for this year's AACA GN.  The car already has its Senior First Place (2006) with AACA. 

You'd be surprised what those judges know when it comes to Marque Specific things.  For example, they knew the triple stripe tires on the car were factory correct for '66.  I offered to show them documentation and one of the judges spoke up saying he was aware of that pattern on the Cadillacs in the mid-Sixties.

Actually, when you stand on the driver's side of the engine bay, you can see a good bit of the transmission.  But regardless of that, I am one of those anal guys who likes to do things correctly (even if I'm the only one who knows.   For the sake of others who will one day find themselves wondering what colors these items should be, I'm just hoping we can get a 'final answer' regarding the correct shade.

Forgive my ignorance but what exactly is the 'five point rule'?  I saw your beautiful '61 in Cherry Hill-it's mindblowingly gorgeous!  I have many photos of it on my computer.

Greg McDonnell

[quadfins]

Well, Greg, I will look forward to seeing you (and your car) In New Bern. Do you have your hotel reservation yet? And I want to say that 1966 is one of my favorite years, so I may be hanging around your car a lot!

The 5-point rule applies only to AACA Grand Nationals, whereas the 10-point rule applies to regular AACA meets. In order to place for an award (First, Second, Third), the car must score above a set minimum number of points AND be within the "points spread" of the highest scoring car. Reading the AACA rules, a car must score at least 380 points to be a First, but ALSO must be within 5 points of the # 1 car. If all cars score 380, then all are Firsts. If your car scores 380, and the top one is 385, you both are Firsts. If your car scores 390, but the top car scores 397, he gets the First, you get a Second. I don't like it, for a number of reasons that I've stated on the AACA website, but the rules are set and imovabale, apparently. It took me 4 tries to earn a Senior, due to this, mainly, I feel, because I drive my car, and other cars in the class only see the light of day between the trailer and the show field. This is especially true with the cars entered in AGNMs.

That's why I am reconciled to not being able to compete for a First. But I think I can score 360 or more, so a Grand National Third would be good, and I look at it as "preferred Parking" within the show field.

The First at Cherry Hill was a true surprise, but since CLC judging includes operation of systems, rather than stricly cosmetics (as AACA), BATILAC did well. Like you, I am a stickler for detail, and I can't stand to have a system that is not operational. The Cherry Hill judges checked to make sure that my Wonderbar scanned properly, and my washers squirted, but none of that will count at New Bern.

But forgive my rant...

I am sincerely looking forward to seeing some magnificent cars in May.

[Greg McDonnell]

Jim,

Ah yes, it is all coming back to me now!  I was well aware of the 10 point rule but, given I have not taken the car to a GN, the five point spread issue was causing me to draw a blank.  I appreciate you taking the time to explain things to me so thoroughly.  Now I'm going to worry about such a tight point spread. 

I didn't get dinged for too much in '06 and thankfully received my First Place Senior the first time I tried.  I have fine-tuned things a great deal since then and am hoping I can get the award that my car is eligible for in May in New Bern.  I don't drive mine all that much and recently have gone over the car very carefully, making sure everything is the way it should be and to the highest quality I can get it.  I do all of my own detailing and will totally start over if I'm not satisfied with the end result of a particular project. 

I am also looking forward to seeing some really great cars in May.  But, I do want my tranny and drive shaft to be factory correct.  I'm hoping the definitive answer will be coming soon so I can get back under the car and finish the job.  The top part of the engine bay looks AWESOME! 


Greg McDonnell

[quadfins]

I agree with your philosophy on details.Others may say "Oh, your car looks perfect", but an involved owner still knows every minor flaw. And working to fix those flaws is how we learn all the details. Nothing makes me happier than greasy hands - except, maybe, driving the car...

My trouble with the Ten Point Rule was actually in getting my First Junior. Once that roadblock was broken, the Senior and Preservations were comparatively easy.

Have you been to New Bern? My 3rd attempt at First Junior was there. It is a great venue. The town shuts down, and show cars are parked along all the streets and in every business parking lot. Nothing at all like the typical giant paved show field. And all within easy walking distance of the hotels.

Last weekend was a fluke warm day, so I washed and waxed BATILAC, and went for a short drive. I had forgotten how smooth and quiet she runs. Ah, that Cadillac Style...


An unrelated question for you...

Years ago, I visited Fort Morgan, at the entrance to Mobile Bay. I heard that it suffered some damage during that spate of hurricanes a couple of years ago. What is the current status of the fort?

Best wishes.
Your friend in fins,

Jim

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

Gentlemen -- I will have my '55 Eldorado at New Bern -- hope to meet some of you
there.

BTW -- if you don't have a hotel yet good luck -- I called all major hotels in the city and got
the last room at the Comfort Suites a few weeks ago!

As far as points -- I thought you needed 380 points for a first junior (Grand National) and
395 for a senior (minimum points).  Am I incorrect?

Mike

[StevenTuck]

Gentlemen -- I will have my '55 Eldorado at New Bern -- hope to meet some of you
there.

BTW -- if you don't have a hotel yet good luck -- I called all major hotels in the city and got
the last room at the Comfort Suites a few weeks ago!

As far as points -- I thought you needed 380 points for a first junior (Grand National) and
395 for a senior (minimum points).  Am I incorrect?

Mike

AACA Grand National (5 pt spread for ties)
1st=380 pts
2nd=370 pts
3rd=360 pts

Senior=390 pts (previously won a AGNM 1st)

All this information is on the AACA website under the Judging Guidelines publication page 95.

I am still contemplating on whether it is worth going or not with it being a 1400 mile round trip from Florida. Acheiving AACA Senior status is the important one and the rest is gravy. I have already won multiple times at numerous Concours events. A some point it becomes more about seeing old friends than winning an award and marketing my Car Show Signs.

I won my 1st Junior last year in February and then got my Senior in April. I changed from radials to bias ply tires for the senior, otherwise I don't think I would have gotten it.

I have always had luck with getting accomodations with Hotwire.com with amazing prices and just as close to the event as any other hotel. If you go directly to the hotel they will not give you a fair price.

Good luck to all going and maybe we will see each other there.

[quadfins]

I concurwith Steve and his AACA information.

Perhaps we can arrange a time for CLC forum users to get together and propose a toast to the Standard of the World"