Cloth Top care??? Help!!!

[David #19063]

Hello all,

Yesterday, the 94 Fleetwood Brougham I just purchased sat outside all day in the rain at work.  Unfortunately, all Broughams come with the cloth top.

This morning, there were 20+ bubbles in the cloth top, some as large as 4 in diameter.  

Even yesterday, I could tell that the cloth looked very wet like the rain was soaking in.

Hopefully, when it drys, they will disappear.

The car has been garage kept and there were no bubbles in the top when I saw in in November or when I just bought it.

What does Cadillac recommend to protect the top?  

Or clean bird droppings from it?

I was thinking about when it is totally dry to treat it with a good dose of Scotch Guard?  

What do you think?

And I thought vinyl tops were a pain.

I hate them both.  

Both vinyl and cloth tops truely look stupid on a car and it does not fool anyone into believing the car is a convertible...which is why the manufacturers do it.

Plus all they do is create a great environment for rust to develop and grow.

David

[JIM CLC # 15000]

02-16-05
David,sounds like the scotch Guard would be the way to go.
Or, some brand/type of water Proofing agent.
I would wait until the top is completely dry before applying anything.
BTW, if you have a shop vacuum, be real careful and try to pull the water out of the cloth.
But be real careful, as it may stratch the cloth if the nozzle is placed on a bubble.
(DO you have a friend with a heated paint booth that you could use over-night? (with a fan blowing).
Good Luck, Jim

[Porter 21919]

David,

It is obviously delaminating.

Wait till the spring time and perhaps you can inject some type of adhesive under the bubbled areas to glue them down.

Sounds like it is so bad you know what really has to be done: an R & R.

Sorry,

Porter

[Mike #19861]

 The Fleetwood Broughams all came with the vinyl top. The faux convertible top on your car is an aftermarket addition. A fairly popular one at that just inflates the dealers profit margin.

 Since they were all done in the aftermarket, it is hard to vouch for the quality of the installation. It seems that so many companies had a hand in it. Obviously, there is a question with the bonding of the cloth to the underlay. The water seems to have been able to separate it. I would feel that the best thing to do would be to let it dry on its own and then see how the bonding is affected. Obviously, you cant take this car out in the rain until it is adressed.

 The only time I am aware that Cadillac installed a faux convertible top any cars at the factory were the Cabriolets and Phaetons of 1979 and they came with specific care instructions for the top. They recommended against automatic washes, spraying high pressure water directly on the top and the use of many soaps, particularly strong detergents such as dish soap. They were also to be air dried.

 I agree with you on the questionable taste of these tops. I can see vinyl tops under certain instances, but these phoney convertible tops are quite over the top.

  Mike

[Porter 21919]

I know of two people that just had them installed, a new Camry and a 2002 Lincoln Continental.

The Camry looked stupid but the Lincoln looked nice, he had never had a delam problem with his 92 Continental he traded in.

[David #19063]

Mike,

Unfortunately, I just purchased this car as my daily driver so it will be out every day, rain, snow, or shine.

David

[David #19063]

Porter,

R&R of a the top will not happen for a daily driver.  In my opinion, that would be a waste of money.  

Thats why I was thinking about some typw of water proofing.

David

[Porter 21919]

Porter, R&R of a the top will not happen for a daily driver. In my opinion, that would be a waste of money. Thats why I was thinking about some typw of water proofing. David


I understand, you will have to wait till it is good and dry and try to inject some glue under the loose areas. Most likely they used an insufficient amount of glue or contact cement, or it was improperly used. There is a time window for contact cement, if you wait too long to adhere the surfaces you blew it, or maybe not enough glue was used.

Anything other than a complete R & R will be a compromise.

Maybe this will waterproof it:

http://www.autogeek.net/303fabcontop.html

Porter

[Dave Leger CLC#19256]

Hi David,

   I agree trying to inject some glue and fix these areas is worthwhile.  As far as future water proofing, I have been looking into what Haartz recommends for their tops (bought a new T-bird), and this might be worthwhile: http://www.autopia-carcare.com/wps-2141.html (they also have the same brand cloth top cleaner - but that might just aggravate your delamination problem).

Dave

[Porter 21919]

Canvas always does.

I would wait till the summer when it is hot and dry, then treat it heavily with 303 protectant, etc.

Otherwise I would peel it back and reglue the top properly.

Sounds like all the bubbles are on top, you could probably just peel it back from the front and leave the rear section alone.

I used two heavy coats of contact cement on my vinyl top, that thing aint coming off anytime soon. Will treat it with 303 protectant when I get some.

[David #19063]

With 20+ spots, Illl count them the next time it rains, it would be a real pain, and I hate to put that main holes in the top to do it.

Im thinking about the water repellant route.

David

[David #19063]

Yes, it is.

I just do not want to use a repellant that will end up running down on the windows and paint when it rains.

I finally found the secret weapon to use on all vinyl tops, and this car has a cloth top.  Works better than anything I have ever used before.

David

[Porter 21919]

Nix the glue injection idea, a waste of time.

I could most likely peel the top back and reglue it.

I dont think the 303 protectant product will run in the rain and drip down on the glass.

The sun will be constantly drying it out.

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

David,

What is wrong with just pulling it off, filling the holes that have to be filled, and painting the roof in the body colour.

I can bet you that there will be rustation issues in the not too distant future if it stays as it is.

Personally, I detest those Faux Convertible tops, and as mentioned previously, it was only a money making concern for the dealer, and make the vehicle look cheap and nasty.   But, that is only my opinion.

If there are that many Bubbles they arent going to go away, and will only stretch by the time Summer comes around.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[David #19063]

David, What is wrong with just pulling it off, filling the holes that have to be filled, and painting the roof in the body colour.

The $500 this would probably cost.

[Porter 21919]

David,

I knew that reply was coming, the cost.

If you plan on keeping the car for awhile, talk to/get a price from a vinyl/phaeton top installer about a peel and reglue. Sounds to me like they didnt use enough glue and the top would easily peel back without any solvent.

Im sure its something I could do because I have the expertise,
probably your cheapest option at this point, besides, youll get the money back when you resell the car, it will be a sticking point with the buyer.

You asked for advice, youre getting it, dont shoot the messenger !

FWIW

Porter

[Lars Kneller 8246]

My 97 Jaguar has a cloth convertible top, and the dealer sells a kit with a special cleaner and reproofer.  The reproofer comes a quart can, and is the consistency of paint thinner.  I paint it on with a paintbrush (comes in the kit with a Jaguar symbol on it!) after cleaning the top.  The top is easy to clean and does not stain.

[ANTHONY 20485]

TRY  A HOT IRON, PLACE A DAMP SHEET OR T SHIRT BETWEEN IRON AND TOP. HEAT MAY REACTIVATE GLUE.

[David #19063]

Thanks Lars,

I will have to check into that.

David

[David #19063]

Thanks Anthony,

I may have to try that.

David